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how the hell are you our side shatters

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drinking hell drink smokin a little

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smoke and join a sunny San Diego day I'm

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Craig Karl wood and after a solid string

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of heavy conspiracy shows dealing with

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the multitude of damage done by the

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well-oiled manipulation machine we call

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reality I thought it would be good to

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get back into a fun weird and kind of

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creepy cryptid topic and Linda Godfrey

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today's guest is the queen bee when it

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comes to canine style wolfish man

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creature sightings and I really love

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this show it's a little less

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controversial than the last with Jordan

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Maxwell I haven't gotten that stark a

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divide between the lovers and the haters

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since Michael Rupert and we know how

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that went but I know not everyone is

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gonna like every guess but I hope that

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you like the way I do things here enough

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that even on a show that might not be

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your favorite topic or guests we keep it

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interesting enough for you to get

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through it at least that's my goal but I

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received so much mail about the Jordan

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Maxwell episode and his personal legal

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situation so many people have linked me

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to the other guy's side of the story and

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I really wish people would utilize the

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subreddit instead of just emailing me

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because then we can get a thread going

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where we really look at both sides and

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discuss some of the controversy as a

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group and then it's not so dead-end as

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an email but consider that if you have

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something to say about an episode try

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starting a thread on the subreddit or

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the higher side chats Facebook page if

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you're not quite as familiar with Reddit

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and the way it works and we can all get

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involved in talking about some of these

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shows there's a lot of content in them

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and I feel like that aspect of the show

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is kind of missing so that's my

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suggestions for that but all I really

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wanted to say about the Jordan Maxwell

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thing is yes maybe Jordan Maxwell isn't

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his given name maybe he signed a

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business deal that didn't go well but

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everyone knows who

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and even if it's a stage name we have a

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situation where there is someone else

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selling his books at Jordan Maxwell comm

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soliciting donations at Jordan Maxwell

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comm and the man we all know is Jordan

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Maxwell sees none of it that's wrong

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that's [\h__\h] up I don't know if he got

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tricked into signing it away or what

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happened but just those simple facts

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aren't right it's dishonest to represent

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yourself as someone else and regardless

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of anything else no one should be doing

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that go right to ten conspiracy books of

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your own and do a thousand of your own

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lectures and says swindle them away from

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someone who did regardless of what's on

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paper just doesn't seem right but I love

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the way Jordan breaks down language and

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either way that's why I had him on the

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show

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I wish the men the best that said most

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people have been riding the THC train

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for a while know that I try to avoid or

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correct a lot of the issues found in

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podcasting poor quality poor preparation

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lack of editing drawn-out repetitive ads

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meandering intros like this one and I

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think I do okay I mean we have a few ads

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here and there but they're all show

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related and I try to jazz them up a bit

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I move them around I try not to use them

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for every episode but another issue I

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find with shows I like is a release

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scheduled shows just sort of come out

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randomly and I'm gonna try something

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different I'm gonna try to commit to a

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new THC on the first 5th 10th 15th 20th

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and 25th of each month so a new show

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every five days and you should know when

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they're coming out but I still like to

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keep the guests a surprise for the most

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part because I just think it's more fun

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that way so let's just get to it no need

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for the ads today there is a new option

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for the Money bomb though that I will

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mention where you can make a 5 10 or $20

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automatic monthly donation which is

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great for me because I like to know how

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much money I have coming in and a little

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more of a consistent fashion than it has

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been and you get put into every Money

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bomb automatically which usually happens

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every 20 days or so so you're really

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getting into a few without putting in

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money so think of it as a good

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compromise if you want to support the

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show regularly and might want to win

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some money back and you don't want to

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have to continually read Onate every

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round which is something people have

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complained about so tough it's tough out

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there who's got the time

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that's about all that's new from me so

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let's dive into the wild world of

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Wolfman k9 cryptids and other paranormal

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creatures right now with Linda Godfrey

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thanks everybody okay what are we doing

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today yeah I say give me some that says

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I get up every morning at 5:30 and

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commute around a half a so [\h__\h] job

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my jagoff boss expects me to kiss his

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balls all day just so I can afford to

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keep my ungrateful screaming kids

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doubt and Dora the Explorer's [\h__\h] my

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wife her fat ass and self-help videos

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until the day I get up the courage to

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right here yeah that's it that's the one

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all right people we know the world is

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much weirder than it appears on the

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surface and today we're taking a

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microscope to one slice of the

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paranormal pie and that's these legend

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sightings and encounters with strange

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unknown canines dog men werewolves or

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whatever other name you want to give to

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these elusive entities and we have a

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guest today who was undoubtedly the

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leading author and investigator into

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these creatures as well as several other

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paranormal and strange topics which I'm

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sure we'll touch on as well her name is

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Linda Godfrey and out of her many books

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several focus on these wolf men beans

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including hunting the American werewolf

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real Wolfman true encounters in modern

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America the Michigan Dogman and the one

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that got the ball rolling the beast of

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Bray Road it's gonna be a wild ride and

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I'm psyched to be on it Linda welcome to

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THC thanks so much for having me Greg

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yeah I mean I'm excited for this thanks

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for being here my pleasure I'm always

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looking for fringe topics to cover on

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this show and I like each episode to be

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kind of wildly different from the next

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and I had a listener suggest that I have

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you on and I honestly thought the topic

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of werewolves and the like was a little

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too goofy to be taken seriously although

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I'm definitely a fan of cryptids in

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general but as I dug into the reports of

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upright-walking canine encounters I

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found that there's a lot more meat on

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these bones than I would have thought

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and I'm sure you had similar feelings

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when you started out but now it seems

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like you're the go-to researcher for

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these types of sightings so was this

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something you always took seriously or

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was it more of a process oh no I mean it

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was I've always had some interest in

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things like UFOs and you know when I was

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a kid I was out always glued to my fairy

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tale books you know so I've had an

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interest in otherworldly things on my

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life but I had never honestly given a

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thought to werewolves until it just so

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happened that I was working as a

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newspaper reporter in Walworth County

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Wisconsin for a countywide weekly and

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heard these rumors that people in my own

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hometown of Elkhorn were reporting

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seeing something that they described for

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lack of a better word as a werewolf

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I would along this

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a two-mile stretch of country road and

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you know I thought it was funny but I

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just for fun kind of checked into it a

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little bit and discovered that indeed

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people were talking about it and not

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only that that our county animal control

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officer actually had a file folder

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marked werewolf which is news which is

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news in itself I went in to see him and

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he showed it to me and it was full of

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the names and addresses and reports from

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people who had been calling him and

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basically saying I saw this thing I

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don't know what it is but if there was

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such a thing as a werewolf you know this

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would be it and he was of course

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skeptical himself too but he couldn't

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come up with any explanation and that

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made me really start thinking well you

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know if this was just a joke or some

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hoaxer I mean I even knew of one or two

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of the people in there I knew they were

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just regular people around the time I

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thought people who are perpetrating a

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hoax don't really call the authorities

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and give them all their contact

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information you know so that that was

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one little red flag at the beginning and

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then I thought well you know even if

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it's just some sort of dangerous

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unidentifiable you know predator that

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surround people certainly have a right

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to know that if it's true and if it's

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just some weird folklore well you know

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I'll write it up and and it will be some

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sort of maybe local legend but we'll

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never probably go any farther I remember

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the editor and I sing saying that and

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nothing was ever farther from the truth

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because once it came out it went

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national much our shock and surprise in

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about two weeks and I started hearing

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from people all over the country telling

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me that they had the same thing in their

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area even if it was sometimes known by a

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different name but I soon recognized

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that everyone was talking basically

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about the same creature the same modus

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motive operating the same behavior and

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they just didn't know that other people

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had it or that anyone else had seen it

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in many cases and I realized it was

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quite a bigger thing and felt

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sort of obligated to keep track of it

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you know because it didn't seem that

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anyone else was paying attention to this

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phenomena and you know it was openly

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scoffed at by many people right from the

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beginning because it just sounds

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outrageous you know I mean werewolf's it

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doesn't sound like a real thing well I

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never I say in all my books and I still

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say I don't believe in actual

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traditional werewolves you know where

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there's like Lon Chaney's sprouting

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whiskers turning all of his bones and

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muscles from a human into a into a

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canine you know I just don't believe

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that and honestly in most cases

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somewhere in the high 90s in mind you

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it's over 20 years later and I'm still

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getting an average of one to three a

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week from all from all over the place

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most cases report nothing that couldn't

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be a natural animal behaving weirdly you

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know there's nothing Supernatural about

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any canine walking on its hind legs they

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just don't normally do it because their

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skeletal and muscular structures aren't

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really designed well for it but they can

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you can go on YouTube and you know

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search for dancing dancing dog or you

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know running dog and find all kinds of

270
00:10:53,889 --> 00:10:51,319
great examples where they do it but

271
00:10:56,019 --> 00:10:53,899
normally they don't unless people have

272
00:10:57,879 --> 00:10:56,029
either trained and motivated them or in

273
00:10:58,960 --> 00:10:57,889
the wild perhaps they've missed that

274
00:11:01,059 --> 00:10:58,970
they're missing a four limb or something

275
00:11:03,579 --> 00:11:01,069
and nobody's ever reported one missing a

276
00:11:06,669 --> 00:11:03,589
four loop that was walking so the great

277
00:11:09,910 --> 00:11:06,679
question that still drives me is why do

278
00:11:12,819 --> 00:11:09,920
people keep seeing this and the

279
00:11:16,269 --> 00:11:12,829
secondary one probably just is equally

280
00:11:19,569 --> 00:11:16,279
important is you know why do there seem

281
00:11:21,429 --> 00:11:19,579
to be large canine type creatures

282
00:11:24,189 --> 00:11:21,439
walking around other hind legs when

283
00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:24,199
there's no real scientific record or

284
00:11:30,549 --> 00:11:28,850
fossil record for anything like this Wow

285
00:11:31,660 --> 00:11:30,559
I mean that's pretty interesting

286
00:11:35,109 --> 00:11:31,670
so you've been looking at this for over

287
00:11:36,669 --> 00:11:35,119
20 years I mean with so many cases that

288
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:36,679
people come to you with what is

289
00:11:41,919 --> 00:11:39,410
consistent about the appearance and the

290
00:11:44,530 --> 00:11:41,929
behavior more so the behavior is kind of

291
00:11:45,939 --> 00:11:44,540
what I'm interested in but um what what

292
00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:45,949
do you see happening time and time again

293
00:11:52,329 --> 00:11:47,570
is it people being attacked

294
00:11:54,189 --> 00:11:52,339
- are they running away from humans in

295
00:11:57,490 --> 00:11:54,199
over 20 years I've never had anyone

296
00:11:59,710 --> 00:11:57,500
other than one man who was scratched and

297
00:12:00,280 --> 00:11:59,720
he feels it was accidentally up in

298
00:12:02,829 --> 00:12:00,290
Canada

299
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:02,839
nobody even when they feel that they

300
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:04,610
were in imminent danger of being eaten

301
00:12:10,650 --> 00:12:07,730
was ever actually even harmed in the

302
00:12:14,999 --> 00:12:10,660
slightest way the creature intimidates

303
00:12:16,809 --> 00:12:15,009
almost acts like territorial aggression

304
00:12:19,329 --> 00:12:16,819
sometimes people feel they're getting

305
00:12:21,189 --> 00:12:19,339
strange messages from it like stay away

306
00:12:23,710 --> 00:12:21,199
or I'm superior to you that kind of

307
00:12:26,410 --> 00:12:23,720
thing it intimidates people but it

308
00:12:30,370 --> 00:12:26,420
doesn't hurt them as far as of any

309
00:12:32,379 --> 00:12:30,380
examples that I know of and that's you

310
00:12:35,170 --> 00:12:32,389
know that's kind of unusual in itself

311
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:35,180
but it's also explainable by you know a

312
00:12:39,069 --> 00:12:37,040
predator defending its territory and

313
00:12:42,249 --> 00:12:39,079
wanting wanting its privacy for some

314
00:12:44,590 --> 00:12:42,259
reason it's just that there's again with

315
00:12:47,379 --> 00:12:44,600
the behavior people will say things to

316
00:12:49,389 --> 00:12:47,389
me like I felt like it was angry that I

317
00:12:51,249 --> 00:12:49,399
saw it you know I felt that it was

318
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:51,259
telling me it could jump on my car if it

319
00:12:56,170 --> 00:12:53,600
wanted to now how often do you ever hear

320
00:12:57,639 --> 00:12:56,180
somebody who is reporting seeing a bear

321
00:12:58,780 --> 00:12:57,649
in the wild I've seen bears in the

322
00:12:59,980 --> 00:12:58,790
ditches you know in northern Wisconsin

323
00:13:02,530 --> 00:12:59,990
that kind of thing

324
00:13:04,660 --> 00:13:02,540
I can't imagine saying to somebody I

325
00:13:06,250 --> 00:13:04,670
felt the bear was angry that I saw it

326
00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:06,260
you know or I thought the bear was

327
00:13:11,139 --> 00:13:07,910
sending me this message that it wanted

328
00:13:13,329 --> 00:13:11,149
to jump on my car and yet I hear that

329
00:13:15,550 --> 00:13:13,339
time and time are people will say you

330
00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:15,560
know it's I felt its eyes we're boring

331
00:13:19,150 --> 00:13:17,690
right through me you know that kind of

332
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:19,160
thing there's there seems to be this

333
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:23,410
kind of secondary psychoactive element

334
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:25,970
to many of the sightings that's just

335
00:13:32,379 --> 00:13:28,970
that's that's weird and the other thing

336
00:13:35,290 --> 00:13:32,389
is the behavior of it always it'll run

337
00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:35,300
right at someone or chase someone or

338
00:13:39,429 --> 00:13:37,760
look fierce and then at the last second

339
00:13:41,889 --> 00:13:39,439
it runs into whatever cover there is

340
00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:41,899
it's almost always seen near some type

341
00:13:47,079 --> 00:13:45,170
of either a cornfield or woods or you

342
00:13:50,110 --> 00:13:47,089
know something that it can jump into and

343
00:13:53,620 --> 00:13:50,120
hide so so that's what's really

344
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:53,630
consistent and in appearance that also

345
00:13:59,949 --> 00:13:57,290
is strangely consistent the appearance

346
00:14:01,420 --> 00:13:59,959
will vary about the same that you'd

347
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:01,430
expect to see within an ad

348
00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:03,770
trol wolf pack or between certain large

349
00:14:11,290 --> 00:14:07,750
dog breeds you know the the fur is

350
00:14:13,180 --> 00:14:11,300
usually described as dark brown shaggy

351
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:13,190
is the most common but sometimes it's

352
00:14:17,889 --> 00:14:15,250
gray and a little you know closer cut

353
00:14:20,170 --> 00:14:17,899
people will normally describe the head

354
00:14:23,710 --> 00:14:20,180
is very like a German Shepherd or a wolf

355
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:23,720
with upright triangular ears a long

356
00:14:27,579 --> 00:14:26,570
muzzle fangs if they can you know if

357
00:14:30,130 --> 00:14:27,589
they can see them all that all they

358
00:14:33,550 --> 00:14:30,140
usually describe things they describe

359
00:14:35,079 --> 00:14:33,560
claws and paws not hands you know it's

360
00:14:36,430 --> 00:14:35,089
very different from from Bigfoot

361
00:14:38,350 --> 00:14:36,440
especially in that way often there's

362
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:38,360
sort of a rough on the back of the neck

363
00:14:43,660 --> 00:14:42,050
a tail they'll say things like its legs

364
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:43,670
it was running really well on its hind

365
00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:45,770
legs but the legs were bent backwards

366
00:14:51,370 --> 00:14:47,839
and by that I know what they mean that

367
00:14:54,190 --> 00:14:51,380
the dog well they call it the dog

368
00:14:56,380 --> 00:14:54,200
specialist would call it a hawk but we

369
00:15:00,070 --> 00:14:56,390
would call it the ankle and heel bone

370
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:00,080
joint area we expect that to be on the

371
00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:02,330
ground but in a canine they run on their

372
00:15:06,370 --> 00:15:04,910
toe pads so it's actually up in the air

373
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:06,380
where we're expecting to see a knee

374
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:09,440
bending forward right you know it's it's

375
00:15:12,730 --> 00:15:10,970
a different part of their Anatomy there

376
00:15:14,380 --> 00:15:12,740
so that's why it always looks like

377
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:14,390
they're running with legs bent backwards

378
00:15:20,620 --> 00:15:16,910
and that's what I hear over and over and

379
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:20,630
the other thing is unless it's one of

380
00:15:25,630 --> 00:15:23,810
the very small percentage that fall into

381
00:15:27,610 --> 00:15:25,640
what I call the the supernatural range

382
00:15:31,420 --> 00:15:27,620
you know and it's not a large number at

383
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:31,430
all they exhibit the normal eyesight for

384
00:15:37,269 --> 00:15:35,600
canine which is yellow green gold so in

385
00:15:40,030 --> 00:15:37,279
every in every way it's not like they

386
00:15:41,890 --> 00:15:40,040
have human faces or you know if you

387
00:15:42,850 --> 00:15:41,900
killed one it would look part human or

388
00:15:45,069 --> 00:15:42,860
anything like that

389
00:15:46,780 --> 00:15:45,079
if you if you did kill one eye I think

390
00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:46,790
it would just look like a big strange

391
00:15:51,490 --> 00:15:49,310
wolf or wolf dog hybrid and they may

392
00:15:55,150 --> 00:15:51,500
well be wolfdog hybrids there's a lot of

393
00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:55,160
evidence in in the reports to my mind

394
00:16:01,810 --> 00:15:59,120
for that possibility but you know it's

395
00:16:05,350 --> 00:16:01,820
just so odd that I mean I've talked to

396
00:16:07,329 --> 00:16:05,360
wolf experts and scientists and no one's

397
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:07,339
ever been able to give me an answer as

398
00:16:14,889 --> 00:16:12,170
to why a natural wolf would or or wolf

399
00:16:16,689 --> 00:16:14,899
dog would adapt itself to run upright

400
00:16:19,359 --> 00:16:16,699
you know why there are no proven

401
00:16:22,869 --> 00:16:19,369
examples of this you know in scientific

402
00:16:25,329 --> 00:16:22,879
lore right so that's that's the big

403
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:25,339
question you know and then there's

404
00:16:29,710 --> 00:16:27,920
there's another paradigm completely when

405
00:16:32,319 --> 00:16:29,720
I interview Native Americans about it

406
00:16:34,199 --> 00:16:32,329
they say oh yes this animal is known to

407
00:16:38,079 --> 00:16:34,209
our ancestors the walking upright

408
00:16:40,989 --> 00:16:38,089
wolf-like creature and it's actually

409
00:16:42,489 --> 00:16:40,999
part partly physical and partly in the

410
00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:42,499
spirit world and it can go back and

411
00:16:47,079 --> 00:16:44,809
forth between them and they believe the

412
00:16:49,119 --> 00:16:47,089
same thing about Bigfoot you know and

413
00:16:51,939 --> 00:16:49,129
actually it would it would explain a lot

414
00:16:54,549 --> 00:16:51,949
of things about both creatures right so

415
00:16:55,359 --> 00:16:54,559
I just try to report everything and keep

416
00:16:57,939 --> 00:16:55,369
an open mind

417
00:16:59,499 --> 00:16:57,949
personally I you know I just wanna just

418
00:17:01,150 --> 00:16:59,509
what I think the evidence has gone over

419
00:17:02,859 --> 00:17:01,160
to one side or the other I learn

420
00:17:06,189 --> 00:17:02,869
something different that'll make me go

421
00:17:07,750 --> 00:17:06,199
hmm well maybe not you know and and the

422
00:17:11,559 --> 00:17:07,760
other thing is I like to keep an open

423
00:17:13,779 --> 00:17:11,569
mind because I think that as soon as you

424
00:17:15,610 --> 00:17:13,789
declare unless you've got really good

425
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:15,620
evidence for it you know and I still

426
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:17,600
never had one in front of me

427
00:17:22,210 --> 00:17:19,610
to say this with any certainty but as

428
00:17:25,199 --> 00:17:22,220
soon as you declare that it's for sure

429
00:17:27,850 --> 00:17:25,209
natural or for sure a spirit animal

430
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:27,860
you're not investigating anymore then

431
00:17:32,500 --> 00:17:29,570
you're just working you're just working

432
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:32,510
to confirm your own biases and you know

433
00:17:38,830 --> 00:17:35,090
I try to keep my reporter hat on as as

434
00:17:42,010 --> 00:17:38,840
best I can and kind of you know not

435
00:17:43,570 --> 00:17:42,020
succumb to that line of thinking right

436
00:17:45,130 --> 00:17:43,580
and that's why I like your approach to

437
00:17:47,139 --> 00:17:45,140
it because I've heard you talk about the

438
00:17:48,580 --> 00:17:47,149
Native American side of it a couple of

439
00:17:50,159 --> 00:17:48,590
times before and that is really

440
00:17:55,389 --> 00:17:50,169
interesting to me I've always enjoyed

441
00:17:58,090 --> 00:17:55,399
looking into any kind of folklore that's

442
00:18:00,010 --> 00:17:58,100
been around for a long time you know we

443
00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,020
have Europeans of a history of wiping

444
00:18:04,029 --> 00:18:02,000
that stuff away as soon as they take

445
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:04,039
over an area but it seems like all the

446
00:18:09,130 --> 00:18:06,370
other cultures of the world have those

447
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:09,140
long-standing stories of kind of

448
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:11,600
paranormal stuff so I thought that was a

449
00:18:15,279 --> 00:18:13,370
pretty interesting element and it also

450
00:18:17,110 --> 00:18:15,289
kind of is in line with what you got

451
00:18:22,029 --> 00:18:17,120
from a government trained remote viewer

452
00:18:24,399 --> 00:18:22,039
one time isn't it well sort of he's got

453
00:18:26,830 --> 00:18:24,409
a different tack yeah and this was a man

454
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:26,840
who was you know employed at one time by

455
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:28,970
the government as a remote viewer

456
00:18:35,470 --> 00:18:30,650
and still works in some freelance

457
00:18:38,260 --> 00:18:35,480
capacities for them and he went in and

458
00:18:40,060 --> 00:18:38,270
did remote viewing based on a sketch

459
00:18:42,399 --> 00:18:40,070
that I made that is kind of a composite

460
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:42,409
witness sketch that appears in several

461
00:18:48,330 --> 00:18:45,530
of my books and what he came up with was

462
00:18:53,140 --> 00:18:48,340
that they were actually extraterrestrial

463
00:18:55,230 --> 00:18:53,150
in origin and that the ones scattered

464
00:19:01,950 --> 00:18:55,240
over the planet Earth that are here now

465
00:19:05,610 --> 00:19:01,960
were left millennia ago as sort of

466
00:19:09,730 --> 00:19:05,620
ranging Scouts for for whatever

467
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:09,740
civilization this is and that you know

468
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:11,809
that's why they're not really supposed

469
00:19:16,630 --> 00:19:14,450
to be seen and why they don't want to be

470
00:19:19,930 --> 00:19:16,640
seen and why they're held back from

471
00:19:22,659 --> 00:19:19,940
hurting people but that they're just

472
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:22,669
kind of waiting for their civilization

473
00:19:28,060 --> 00:19:25,600
to come back one of these days so I I

474
00:19:31,450 --> 00:19:28,070
you know I don't know what to think of

475
00:19:33,070 --> 00:19:31,460
that did stop viewing because he kind of

476
00:19:34,810 --> 00:19:33,080
felt they were sort of reverse viewing

477
00:19:37,930 --> 00:19:34,820
him after a while you know and that he

478
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:37,940
was discovered and and got very nervous

479
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:39,610
and won't view them anymore

480
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:43,490
that's weird but I mean to me ETS and

481
00:19:47,830 --> 00:19:45,530
spiritual beings and these guardians

482
00:19:50,620 --> 00:19:47,840
they're all kind of the same at least I

483
00:19:53,380 --> 00:19:50,630
kind of categorize them as as similar

484
00:19:55,419 --> 00:19:53,390
yeah many similarities right mm-hmm I

485
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:55,429
mean when people take ayahuasca or

486
00:20:00,940 --> 00:19:57,730
certain psychedelics they're they see

487
00:20:02,830 --> 00:20:00,950
human-animal hybrids as well so I wonder

488
00:20:05,950 --> 00:20:02,840
if that doesn't open up a doorway to

489
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:05,960
make you more able to see these kind of

490
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:07,490
things but maybe they show up in our

491
00:20:12,549 --> 00:20:09,730
waking life once in a while or maybe

492
00:20:15,070 --> 00:20:12,559
some people's brains release the right

493
00:20:16,990 --> 00:20:15,080
chemicals naturally and the stars align

494
00:20:20,529 --> 00:20:17,000
and they can see through to some other

495
00:20:22,210 --> 00:20:20,539
dimension they see a Wolfman yeah I you

496
00:20:24,370 --> 00:20:22,220
know I don't know what it is I do ask

497
00:20:28,390 --> 00:20:24,380
most witnesses or many of them volunteer

498
00:20:31,210 --> 00:20:28,400
you know as to their sobriety level and

499
00:20:33,310 --> 00:20:31,220
and almost to a person you know with

500
00:20:35,140 --> 00:20:33,320
very few exceptions they will say they

501
00:20:36,940 --> 00:20:35,150
were driving there or whatever they were

502
00:20:40,090 --> 00:20:36,950
perfectly sober they don't drink they

503
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,100
don't take drugs so that's really the

504
00:20:44,169 --> 00:20:42,559
predominant the one guy who said

505
00:20:45,999 --> 00:20:44,179
yes I'd been drinking when I was on my

506
00:20:49,899 --> 00:20:46,009
way home but when I saw that I sobered

507
00:20:51,970 --> 00:20:49,909
up really fast you know and and why if

508
00:20:54,159 --> 00:20:51,980
you think about it um many people there

509
00:20:56,019 --> 00:20:54,169
are many people who have had the

510
00:20:56,409 --> 00:20:56,029
experience of having had too much to

511
00:20:59,830 --> 00:20:56,419
drink

512
00:21:02,739 --> 00:20:59,840
did you see walking wolves you know it's

513
00:21:04,860 --> 00:21:02,749
right right I mean it's not it's not

514
00:21:08,289 --> 00:21:04,870
what happens normally when you get drunk

515
00:21:10,450 --> 00:21:08,299
and there aren't too many people walking

516
00:21:12,460 --> 00:21:10,460
around America on ayahuasca that's kind

517
00:21:15,779 --> 00:21:12,470
of you know I know I know I know some

518
00:21:18,369 --> 00:21:15,789
people who have traveled you know to

519
00:21:20,350 --> 00:21:18,379
Central and South America and gone

520
00:21:22,149 --> 00:21:20,360
through the procedure and it's really

521
00:21:24,190 --> 00:21:22,159
kind of a long drawn-out unpleasant

522
00:21:26,950 --> 00:21:24,200
thing you know it's not something you do

523
00:21:30,430 --> 00:21:26,960
for social recreation not actually not

524
00:21:32,249 --> 00:21:30,440
not no not in the US so you know so I

525
00:21:34,659 --> 00:21:32,259
can't blame it on anything like that

526
00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:34,669
many times there's more than one witness

527
00:21:38,139 --> 00:21:36,529
you know there'll be it'll be a car

528
00:21:40,749 --> 00:21:38,149
driving past with several people in it

529
00:21:44,499 --> 00:21:40,759
or a couple of people out hiking or

530
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:44,509
hunting or or whatever and they see the

531
00:21:50,139 --> 00:21:47,090
same thing you know so it's it's not

532
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:50,149
like a singular hallucination I don't

533
00:21:55,509 --> 00:21:53,330
believe that in most cases a mass

534
00:21:58,499 --> 00:21:55,519
hallucination would be applicable it's

535
00:22:01,239 --> 00:21:58,509
you know it's not the same thing as as I

536
00:22:03,489 --> 00:22:01,249
mean where you have a mass crowd that's

537
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:03,499
somewhere for a worshipful purpose and

538
00:22:07,539 --> 00:22:05,450
they all are staring into the Sun and

539
00:22:09,759 --> 00:22:07,549
all see something yeah I mean that's a

540
00:22:11,980 --> 00:22:09,769
very very in most cases these are just

541
00:22:15,190 --> 00:22:11,990
normal great people going about their

542
00:22:17,980 --> 00:22:15,200
lives and they see this thing and it

543
00:22:20,019 --> 00:22:17,990
kind of changes their their worldview

544
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:20,029
forever yeah it makes it even more

545
00:22:23,859 --> 00:22:22,129
interesting that they're not expecting

546
00:22:25,659 --> 00:22:23,869
to look for anything they're not hunting

547
00:22:28,989 --> 00:22:25,669
anything it just kind of shows up but

548
00:22:31,629 --> 00:22:28,999
can you write out some of the details of

549
00:22:37,509 --> 00:22:31,639
maybe an encounter or two that you found

550
00:22:40,149 --> 00:22:37,519
to be really intriguing well you know

551
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:40,159
they're they're almost all intriguing to

552
00:22:44,289 --> 00:22:42,049
me I mean their each one's a little bit

553
00:22:46,810 --> 00:22:44,299
different a lot of them do happen when

554
00:22:49,389 --> 00:22:46,820
people are driving at night and they see

555
00:22:52,419 --> 00:22:49,399
it by the roadside and it either stands

556
00:22:54,759 --> 00:22:52,429
up on its either crouching and then

557
00:22:56,259 --> 00:22:54,769
stands up and sometimes runs after them

558
00:22:58,690 --> 00:22:56,269
or the the opposite it

559
00:23:01,119 --> 00:22:58,700
be running along on its hind legs and

560
00:23:03,609 --> 00:23:01,129
then drop down to a horse when it knows

561
00:23:06,969 --> 00:23:03,619
it's being observed but one of the most

562
00:23:08,799 --> 00:23:06,979
spectacular is recounted in my book real

563
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:08,809
Wolfman true encounters in modern

564
00:23:14,649 --> 00:23:12,320
America and although they don't give

565
00:23:17,949 --> 00:23:14,659
credit the sci-fi show paranormal

566
00:23:19,989 --> 00:23:17,959
witness actually did did an episode on

567
00:23:22,509 --> 00:23:19,999
that called the Maine Wolf Pack which

568
00:23:24,129 --> 00:23:22,519
was was my title yeah you don't you

569
00:23:26,649 --> 00:23:24,139
won't know from watching the TV show and

570
00:23:27,849 --> 00:23:26,659
the TV show was sensationalized yeah

571
00:23:30,159 --> 00:23:27,859
they all are it's kind of it's

572
00:23:32,919 --> 00:23:30,169
unfortunate yeah I've gotten pretty

573
00:23:37,209 --> 00:23:32,929
jaded about what the TV shows about this

574
00:23:40,690 --> 00:23:37,219
subject but in this occurrence there was

575
00:23:42,999 --> 00:23:40,700
a very nice middle-aged professional

576
00:23:46,089 --> 00:23:43,009
couple sitting on the front porch of

577
00:23:48,009 --> 00:23:46,099
this farmhouse that they rented you know

578
00:23:50,289 --> 00:23:48,019
very just nice salt-of-the-earth people

579
00:23:52,269 --> 00:23:50,299
I've gotten I've talked many many times

580
00:23:55,209 --> 00:23:52,279
with these witnesses and and they're

581
00:23:56,859 --> 00:23:55,219
just great people they're sitting on the

582
00:23:58,869 --> 00:23:56,869
front porch it was their habit to sit

583
00:24:02,499 --> 00:23:58,879
out and have a late night cup of coffee

584
00:24:03,069 --> 00:24:02,509
and they would keep up kind of a

585
00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:03,079
floodlight

586
00:24:07,810 --> 00:24:06,049
slash flashlight on on the porch next to

587
00:24:09,190 --> 00:24:07,820
them because there was a pond and they

588
00:24:10,839 --> 00:24:09,200
liked to shine it down there once in a

589
00:24:13,029 --> 00:24:10,849
while and see the deer that would come

590
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:13,039
drinking at the pond well they're

591
00:24:17,949 --> 00:24:14,450
sitting there and they both just got

592
00:24:20,519 --> 00:24:17,959
this ominous dread feeling and they

593
00:24:25,629 --> 00:24:20,529
shone the flashlight out in the yard and

594
00:24:28,389 --> 00:24:25,639
saw three upright dog or wolf like

595
00:24:31,810 --> 00:24:28,399
creatures that they could tell where at

596
00:24:34,749 --> 00:24:31,820
least seven feet tall creeping toward

597
00:24:36,339 --> 00:24:34,759
them on their hind legs and they shown

598
00:24:38,139 --> 00:24:36,349
it in a different direction and there

599
00:24:41,469 --> 00:24:38,149
were two more so there were a total of

600
00:24:44,769 --> 00:24:41,479
five of these things silently sneaking

601
00:24:46,269 --> 00:24:44,779
up on them on the front porch and when

602
00:24:48,219 --> 00:24:46,279
they when they shined the light the the

603
00:24:51,339 --> 00:24:48,229
creatures stopped and kind of backed up

604
00:24:53,199 --> 00:24:51,349
and they were able to get into the house

605
00:24:56,499 --> 00:24:53,209
the man's guns were locked up in an

606
00:24:57,759 --> 00:24:56,509
outdoor utility building and and so he

607
00:25:02,019 --> 00:24:57,769
didn't really have any weapons they

608
00:25:04,930 --> 00:25:02,029
called 911 never been able to get the

609
00:25:08,649 --> 00:25:04,940
911 call released the TV show tried we

610
00:25:11,140 --> 00:25:08,659
tried they tried but they did call 9-1-1

611
00:25:14,150 --> 00:25:11,150
911 told them to

612
00:25:15,860 --> 00:25:14,160
the local game warden and the game

613
00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:15,870
warden told them just stay in the house

614
00:25:21,380 --> 00:25:18,720
and shut the doors and neither one ever

615
00:25:22,730 --> 00:25:21,390
came out to investigate and they did

616
00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:22,740
find they were up all night

617
00:25:27,980 --> 00:25:25,140
their daughter was asleep upstairs in

618
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:27,990
the TV show it shows them sleeping with

619
00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:30,030
axes and knives you know they didn't do

620
00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:31,860
that but they were but they were pretty

621
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:34,710
terrified and then they found the next

622
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:36,810
morning they found these large

623
00:25:42,290 --> 00:25:39,440
impressions in the grass where the

624
00:25:44,270 --> 00:25:42,300
creatures had walked on the TV Shaw it

625
00:25:45,470 --> 00:25:44,280
shows perfect footprints in mud you know

626
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:45,480
but it wasn't like that

627
00:25:50,750 --> 00:25:47,130
that was you know a lot more than they

628
00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:50,760
had but that was a pretty amazing thing

629
00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:52,110
the creatures stayed there all night too

630
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:54,710
because every once in a while

631
00:25:59,870 --> 00:25:58,320
Shelley and Erik would look out and see

632
00:26:01,280 --> 00:25:59,880
that they were still there you know they

633
00:26:03,050 --> 00:26:01,290
could they'd shine the light out and

634
00:26:06,020 --> 00:26:03,060
they get all these pairs of eyes looking

635
00:26:07,580 --> 00:26:06,030
back at them Wow and they slunk away

636
00:26:10,220 --> 00:26:07,590
sometime you know when it started

637
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:10,230
getting light out yeah that's a really

638
00:26:15,170 --> 00:26:12,510
good one because usually with cryptids

639
00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:15,180
you only see one and that's kind of been

640
00:26:19,670 --> 00:26:17,670
my one of my beefs with the whole field

641
00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:19,680
is you know if they're animals you think

642
00:26:23,990 --> 00:26:22,110
you'd see families or young ones here

643
00:26:25,940 --> 00:26:24,000
and there but it really always just

644
00:26:28,460 --> 00:26:25,950
seems to be one that shows up in a town

645
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:28,470
for a couple of years maybe or a couple

646
00:26:32,750 --> 00:26:30,090
of months and then it just disappears

647
00:26:35,390 --> 00:26:32,760
but to see three at once that is pretty

648
00:26:37,310 --> 00:26:35,400
interesting actually that was five and

649
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:37,320
there was another yeah there was I've

650
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:40,290
had as many as four before that's that's

651
00:26:45,650 --> 00:26:43,410
the record there was another woman who

652
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:45,660
passed a lie-detector test

653
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:48,720
a very stringently applied polygraph

654
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:53,850
expert gave the test it was on the first

655
00:26:59,840 --> 00:26:56,850
Monster quest episode on this and she

656
00:27:01,670 --> 00:26:59,850
saw one by itself and then she and her

657
00:27:04,670 --> 00:27:01,680
friends she was with three other friends

658
00:27:06,650 --> 00:27:04,680
they all saw it drove away from there

659
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:06,660
and then encountered three more that

660
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:10,410
were drinking and a stream and have had

661
00:27:14,930 --> 00:27:13,170
people in upstate New York see two of

662
00:27:18,230 --> 00:27:14,940
them jogging along a highway there have

663
00:27:19,870 --> 00:27:18,240
been there was an incident down in in a

664
00:27:23,060 --> 00:27:19,880
southern part of the country where

665
00:27:24,140 --> 00:27:23,070
somebody observed a female and three

666
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:24,150
little ones crossing

667
00:27:28,430 --> 00:27:26,250
rode all upright even the little ones

668
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:28,440
I've had I've had other small ones

669
00:27:33,650 --> 00:27:32,460
observed by themselves so it does sort

670
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:33,660
of indicate that there's a breeding

671
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:36,090
population right so there you go

672
00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:37,440
I don't hear about that as much

673
00:27:40,940 --> 00:27:38,910
especially with other cryptids but

674
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:40,950
that's pretty compelling that you found

675
00:27:44,540 --> 00:27:42,930
that and another thing I noticed while

676
00:27:46,820 --> 00:27:44,550
looking into this preparing for the show

677
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:46,830
is there seems to be some cases of

678
00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:50,130
people who have like lifelong continued

679
00:27:54,950 --> 00:27:52,950
sightings the way that UFO abductees

680
00:27:56,150 --> 00:27:54,960
claim that it happens over and over

681
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:56,160
again and there are some people that

682
00:28:00,950 --> 00:27:57,930
have these reoccurring sightings of

683
00:28:02,810 --> 00:28:00,960
wolf-men have you found that at all yeah

684
00:28:05,780 --> 00:28:02,820
there are some you know and it's odd

685
00:28:09,140 --> 00:28:05,790
because people who go out looking and

686
00:28:13,010 --> 00:28:09,150
hunting for it almost never see it right

687
00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:13,020
but but the ones who do see it seem to

688
00:28:18,290 --> 00:28:16,110
be the the few that will run into it you

689
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:18,300
know again and again or it may hitch ooh

690
00:28:22,910 --> 00:28:20,730
eight if they have a farm or rural area

691
00:28:26,210 --> 00:28:22,920
especially I've had several situations

692
00:28:30,140 --> 00:28:26,220
like this one in Ohio one in northern

693
00:28:32,270 --> 00:28:30,150
Wisconsin where it hangs seems to hang

694
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:32,280
around for years and kind of you know

695
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:34,170
just worries at the chickens and the the

696
00:28:38,750 --> 00:28:36,480
livestock and they can hear it walking

697
00:28:40,970 --> 00:28:38,760
around at night might be scratching this

698
00:28:42,650 --> 00:28:40,980
the siding you know that kind of thing

699
00:28:46,220 --> 00:28:42,660
but it never leaves anything really

700
00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:46,230
concrete enough for proof it they do

701
00:28:52,580 --> 00:28:49,310
seem to react to floodlights

702
00:28:54,650 --> 00:28:52,590
particularly and a lot of people have

703
00:28:55,970 --> 00:28:54,660
tried things like religious blessings

704
00:29:00,200 --> 00:28:55,980
you know either

705
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:00,210
Christians leaving holy oil or water

706
00:29:07,100 --> 00:29:03,810
crosses marking all the doorways or the

707
00:29:08,930 --> 00:29:07,110
Native American sage ceremonies they do

708
00:29:10,460 --> 00:29:08,940
seem to get some relief from these -

709
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:10,470
which makes you wonder if they're

710
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:12,720
natural animals why would that help you

711
00:29:17,030 --> 00:29:14,310
know and maybe it's coincidental maybe

712
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:17,040
the things are just ready to go anyway

713
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:19,530
but having flood lights or something

714
00:29:24,710 --> 00:29:22,050
like that does definitely seem didn't

715
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:24,720
help yeah I guess the there's a wide

716
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:27,600
range of opinions on if these are more

717
00:29:34,010 --> 00:29:30,930
intelligent beings or alien guardians or

718
00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:34,020
animals but the thing you said about

719
00:29:37,850 --> 00:29:37,110
people having a feeling that it does

720
00:29:41,900 --> 00:29:37,860
that it was

721
00:29:43,940 --> 00:29:41,910
interesting to me it's almost in line

722
00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:43,950
with some type of telepathic

723
00:29:49,460 --> 00:29:47,760
communication but has anyone described

724
00:29:54,289 --> 00:29:49,470
it to you that way or is it more or less

725
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:54,299
just a fleeting feeling no they'll they

726
00:30:00,230 --> 00:29:57,570
will say you know they won't really say

727
00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:00,240
they'll say that I felt this was what it

728
00:30:06,850 --> 00:30:02,880
was telling me not in words but you know

729
00:30:09,380 --> 00:30:06,860
just in a specific message that I

730
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:09,390
certainly understood you know and

731
00:30:14,419 --> 00:30:12,510
they'll say I I thought I was crazy

732
00:30:16,310 --> 00:30:14,429
telling myself to get a grip on it one

733
00:30:18,020 --> 00:30:16,320
one recent woman that wrote was telling

734
00:30:20,750 --> 00:30:18,030
me that she was saying to herself get a

735
00:30:22,850 --> 00:30:20,760
grip don't talk about it you know don't

736
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:22,860
tell anybody that kind of thing

737
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:25,290
but they don't they don't say it was a

738
00:30:30,169 --> 00:30:27,120
message in the King's English it was a

739
00:30:34,159 --> 00:30:30,179
specific impression that was imparted to

740
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:34,169
them and and usually very threatening

741
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:35,730
and I've heard that Bigfoot witnesses

742
00:30:39,070 --> 00:30:37,530
will sometimes say the same things but

743
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:39,080
they're they're usually not so

744
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:43,049
aggressively threatening as the ones

745
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:45,510
from the dog man so I don't and I've

746
00:30:50,419 --> 00:30:47,610
speculated that perhaps when if you're

747
00:30:53,770 --> 00:30:50,429
in a moment of fear and panic that I

748
00:30:57,460 --> 00:30:53,780
guess it's possible that people could be

749
00:30:59,840 --> 00:30:57,470
you know reading the body language and

750
00:31:01,640 --> 00:30:59,850
sort of getting an impression that way

751
00:31:02,990 --> 00:31:01,650
but those that I've spoken to you know

752
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:03,000
when I've said to the witnesses well how

753
00:31:07,460 --> 00:31:04,890
about this they'll say no it wasn't like

754
00:31:10,580 --> 00:31:07,470
that at all I really felt I was getting

755
00:31:12,890 --> 00:31:10,590
this direct mental message of some kind

756
00:31:15,980 --> 00:31:12,900
you know and even though it felt crazy

757
00:31:17,690 --> 00:31:15,990
that's what I thought it was right it is

758
00:31:21,049 --> 00:31:17,700
possible that people are projecting that

759
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:21,059
but it does seem consistent with reports

760
00:31:28,070 --> 00:31:24,240
of other types of beans in this realm of

761
00:31:31,789 --> 00:31:28,080
cryptozoology and paranormal that it's a

762
00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:31,799
consistent type of communication the way

763
00:31:36,370 --> 00:31:34,260
they describe it yeah of course it's not

764
00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:36,380
in English but it's more of just

765
00:31:43,159 --> 00:31:38,910
overarching feelings or emotions that

766
00:31:45,409 --> 00:31:43,169
are kind of transferred it's interesting

767
00:31:47,390 --> 00:31:45,419
so weird dynamic - it makes me think

768
00:31:50,390 --> 00:31:47,400
that there might be something more to

769
00:31:51,650 --> 00:31:50,400
them than just animals because animals

770
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:51,660
you know

771
00:31:55,100 --> 00:31:53,370
they can't animals are not quite as

772
00:31:58,100 --> 00:31:55,110
elusive as some of these cryptids seem

773
00:32:00,380 --> 00:31:58,110
to be no no and the longer that I study

774
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:00,390
them the more I kind of lean that way I

775
00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:03,210
mean they sure they don't do anything

776
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:05,310
overtly that a natural animal couldn't

777
00:32:12,740 --> 00:32:09,120
do but it's these impressions of the

778
00:32:15,590 --> 00:32:12,750
witnesses and the oddity of them and

779
00:32:18,530 --> 00:32:15,600
this and their behavior that is just

780
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:18,540
really out of the box you know that that

781
00:32:23,450 --> 00:32:21,120
makes me just wonder if they have some

782
00:32:25,790 --> 00:32:23,460
other element to them that we perhaps

783
00:32:27,470 --> 00:32:25,800
haven't even guessed yet you know it's

784
00:32:29,150 --> 00:32:27,480
it's hard to say because some of the

785
00:32:32,810 --> 00:32:29,160
message our messages are quite specific

786
00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:32,820
there was one woman who felt it was

787
00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:34,980
saying to her I know where you live and

788
00:32:39,410 --> 00:32:37,470
if you tell anyone about me I will come

789
00:32:40,820 --> 00:32:39,420
and get you and she was so terrified

790
00:32:41,510 --> 00:32:40,830
that she didn't tell her husband for

791
00:32:44,540 --> 00:32:41,520
like three days

792
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:44,550
and when I came to interview her a week

793
00:32:48,380 --> 00:32:46,770
later she was still shaking and started

794
00:32:51,380 --> 00:32:48,390
crying when she told about it you know

795
00:32:53,210 --> 00:32:51,390
it the effect was that strong upon her

796
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:53,220
or you know another woman said I was

797
00:32:57,770 --> 00:32:55,050
driving by and I saw it and it looked in

798
00:32:59,510 --> 00:32:57,780
my eyes and I felt it was saying I could

799
00:33:03,860 --> 00:32:59,520
jump on your car right now if I wanted

800
00:33:05,510 --> 00:33:03,870
to huh yeah that's that's freaky stuff

801
00:33:07,430 --> 00:33:05,520
you know when's the last time you heard

802
00:33:09,950 --> 00:33:07,440
somebody say well I saw coyote and I

803
00:33:12,020 --> 00:33:09,960
thought it was saying to me I could you

804
00:33:15,050 --> 00:33:12,030
know dance on your head or what whatever

805
00:33:17,090 --> 00:33:15,060
if I liked it it's just I see a lot of

806
00:33:19,790 --> 00:33:17,100
animals in the wild and and I've just

807
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:19,800
never even thought of something like

808
00:33:23,540 --> 00:33:21,360
that even when people have been scared

809
00:33:25,790 --> 00:33:23,550
you know my husband's a hunter he's had

810
00:33:27,380 --> 00:33:25,800
a bear come up to his tree blind and

811
00:33:30,020 --> 00:33:27,390
that kind of thing he just thought oh

812
00:33:31,670 --> 00:33:30,030
there's a bear you know and right it's

813
00:33:34,430 --> 00:33:31,680
it's not the sort of thing you don't

814
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:34,440
feel like you're getting impressed

815
00:33:38,990 --> 00:33:37,170
messages from them it seems pretty clear

816
00:33:40,730 --> 00:33:39,000
that the people who see these things it

817
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:40,740
isn't like seeing an animal they're hit

818
00:33:45,890 --> 00:33:43,440
with a wave of emotion a wave of

819
00:33:47,810 --> 00:33:45,900
feelings and it's clear on the onset

820
00:33:49,250 --> 00:33:47,820
that they're seeing something special

821
00:33:52,100 --> 00:33:49,260
something that's weird

822
00:33:55,310 --> 00:33:52,110
they recognize it yeah they recognize it

823
00:33:57,470 --> 00:33:55,320
as something special which is you know

824
00:33:59,450 --> 00:33:57,480
something to definitely make note of but

825
00:34:02,720 --> 00:33:59,460
to take this into a weirder direction I

826
00:34:04,670 --> 00:34:02,730
mean lately I've had a few guests on and

827
00:34:05,650 --> 00:34:04,680
done a few shows about a cult magic and

828
00:34:08,050 --> 00:34:05,660
Aleister Crowley

829
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:08,060
and you hear about these guys summoning

830
00:34:11,889 --> 00:34:10,490
demons and conjuring up entities of one

831
00:34:13,810 --> 00:34:11,899
type or another and I get a little

832
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:13,820
skeptical of that stuff because we don't

833
00:34:17,950 --> 00:34:15,649
have monsters running in the streets or

834
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:17,960
stage shows where demons are summoned up

835
00:34:21,850 --> 00:34:19,850
but you have you ever given any thought

836
00:34:25,060 --> 00:34:21,860
to some of these Wolfman sightings being

837
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:25,070
related to conjuring at all well you

838
00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:27,010
know there are several different

839
00:34:32,350 --> 00:34:29,510
supernatural possibilities a conjuring

840
00:34:33,940 --> 00:34:32,360
type of thing is is one of them I ask

841
00:34:36,070 --> 00:34:33,950
you to that would be like the Native

842
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:36,080
American skinwalker where medicine men

843
00:34:42,220 --> 00:34:40,310
can project an astral or spirit double

844
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:42,230
body that either goes out from them and

845
00:34:48,669 --> 00:34:45,050
mimics a creature like that or sort of

846
00:34:51,220 --> 00:34:48,679
covers them like a spirit suit but I

847
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:51,230
don't think there is enough of that

848
00:34:55,780 --> 00:34:53,570
activity going on to account for all of

849
00:34:57,880 --> 00:34:55,790
the sightings that I see and normally

850
00:35:00,340 --> 00:34:57,890
you know if people report a creature

851
00:35:02,620 --> 00:35:00,350
that has hands instead of paws or red

852
00:35:05,650 --> 00:35:02,630
eyes you know are there are several

853
00:35:08,740 --> 00:35:05,660
other markers that it just it may not

854
00:35:10,780 --> 00:35:08,750
have a tail or it might have more of a

855
00:35:13,690 --> 00:35:10,790
man-like body with actual shoulders

856
00:35:16,930 --> 00:35:13,700
rather than just well-developed upper

857
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:16,940
four limbs those those are the kind of

858
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:19,210
markers and there again it's maybe

859
00:35:26,050 --> 00:35:22,010
probably less than 5% of the ones that I

860
00:35:28,830 --> 00:35:26,060
get but taken together I think there

861
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:28,840
there's sort of a second subset of

862
00:35:35,020 --> 00:35:32,330
sightings that make sense but they can't

863
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:35,030
explain all of them by any means you

864
00:35:40,630 --> 00:35:37,810
know now are there any interesting

865
00:35:42,220 --> 00:35:40,640
commonalities between the hot spots that

866
00:35:44,770 --> 00:35:42,230
these things are cited at or does it

867
00:35:49,780 --> 00:35:44,780
seem just to be kind of random wooded

868
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:49,790
areas well they can appear in they're

869
00:35:56,020 --> 00:35:52,250
not always wooded areas sometimes they

870
00:36:00,370 --> 00:35:56,030
they are seen in fairly urban places

871
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:00,380
it's you know it's surprising but there

872
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:02,210
are some commonalities and the

873
00:36:06,220 --> 00:36:03,770
interesting thing is that a lot of them

874
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:06,230
are the same sorts of places that in

875
00:36:12,970 --> 00:36:10,400
Europe are considered haunted haunted

876
00:36:15,100 --> 00:36:12,980
places or places where phantom black

877
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:15,110
dogs or other creatures are seen and

878
00:36:22,540 --> 00:36:19,130
these include crossroads

879
00:36:24,010 --> 00:36:22,550
Terri's in lieu of crossroads sometimes

880
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:24,020
these days there's I'm getting more and

881
00:36:30,810 --> 00:36:25,370
more reports of them being seen on

882
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:34,810
churchyards military areas especially in

883
00:36:40,810 --> 00:36:37,910
the old sacred places but beyond that

884
00:36:44,410 --> 00:36:40,820
also there's almost always water a good

885
00:36:48,990 --> 00:36:44,420
water a lot of water source some kind of

886
00:36:51,700 --> 00:36:49,000
cover for these for the dog men and

887
00:36:53,710 --> 00:36:51,710
usually there's some sort of prey that

888
00:36:56,350 --> 00:36:53,720
they're after either farm animals or

889
00:36:59,020 --> 00:36:56,360
deer a lot of times they've been seen

890
00:37:02,170 --> 00:36:59,030
and reported running away carrying a

891
00:37:03,850 --> 00:37:02,180
haunch of a deer or a small animal or

892
00:37:06,190 --> 00:37:03,860
something like that I had some ladies in

893
00:37:08,140 --> 00:37:06,200
northern Illinois here their cat

894
00:37:10,420 --> 00:37:08,150
screaming when I they went it had been

895
00:37:13,930 --> 00:37:10,430
outside and they went to the patio door

896
00:37:15,910 --> 00:37:13,940
and saw this six foot tall dog or wolf

897
00:37:17,950 --> 00:37:15,920
like creatures standing there on its

898
00:37:21,370 --> 00:37:17,960
hind legs with their cat in its mouth oh

899
00:37:23,110 --> 00:37:21,380
no I love cats well this has a happy

900
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:23,120
ending they startled it so much by

901
00:37:26,710 --> 00:37:24,410
screaming and pounding on the glass that

902
00:37:33,100 --> 00:37:26,720
it dropped it dropped the cat and ran

903
00:37:35,050 --> 00:37:33,110
off oh man yeah yeah so I guess one of

904
00:37:38,020 --> 00:37:35,060
my big issues with cryptids in general

905
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:38,030
is that all the stories I hear are

906
00:37:42,010 --> 00:37:40,610
generally from the past and I was

907
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:42,020
wondering is there anything that people

908
00:37:47,050 --> 00:37:45,110
are reporting to you now that like

909
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:47,060
pockets of weird sightings that maybe

910
00:37:50,740 --> 00:37:48,800
you've heard about in the past year or

911
00:37:52,690 --> 00:37:50,750
two it doesn't even have to be in the

912
00:37:54,370 --> 00:37:52,700
canine family but just any kind of weird

913
00:37:54,820 --> 00:37:54,380
entity that people are reporting to you

914
00:37:56,740 --> 00:37:54,830
recently

915
00:37:59,770 --> 00:37:56,750
oh sure these things go on all the time

916
00:38:03,310 --> 00:37:59,780
and they go up to present I've I had my

917
00:38:05,140 --> 00:38:03,320
last sighting of something not on Bray

918
00:38:09,130 --> 00:38:05,150
Road but in that vicinity was February

919
00:38:11,860 --> 00:38:09,140
20th from a really reliable area

920
00:38:14,230 --> 00:38:11,870
resident and and kind of an amazing

921
00:38:17,890 --> 00:38:14,240
sighting yeah he saw it at 3 a.m.

922
00:38:19,240 --> 00:38:17,900
chasing a coyote through a field Wow

923
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:19,250
well there's your contrast you know

924
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:21,050
there's clearly what a coyote looks like

925
00:38:25,330 --> 00:38:23,090
and then here's this thing exactly there

926
00:38:27,490 --> 00:38:25,340
was no comparison and he was a

927
00:38:30,670 --> 00:38:27,500
non-believer total skeptic I'm you know

928
00:38:32,590 --> 00:38:30,680
until that happened I've had I found a

929
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:32,600
new book coming out in August

930
00:38:38,530 --> 00:38:36,290
called American monsters history of the

931
00:38:41,170 --> 00:38:38,540
light sightings Laura legends of

932
00:38:44,860 --> 00:38:41,180
monsters in America and I've got a

933
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:44,870
really amazing huge bird sighting that

934
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:48,370
happened you know within a few years ago

935
00:38:52,690 --> 00:38:50,930
in northern Wisconsin that you know

936
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:52,700
hasn't been published anywhere else that

937
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:56,450
I think will surprise people a lot one

938
00:38:59,290 --> 00:38:57,650
thing I discovered when I was

939
00:39:02,430 --> 00:38:59,300
researching that book is that there are

940
00:39:05,530 --> 00:39:02,440
a lot more sightings of weird huge

941
00:39:07,420 --> 00:39:05,540
flying things than you'd imagine whether

942
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:07,430
they look like whether they look like

943
00:39:11,860 --> 00:39:10,010
the ancient pterosaurs or they look like

944
00:39:14,050 --> 00:39:11,870
some kind of furry thing with bat wings

945
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:14,060
that they that's usually called bat

946
00:39:20,290 --> 00:39:16,640
squatcher uncle I've had one called man

947
00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:20,300
bat that I call man bat or whether

948
00:39:25,990 --> 00:39:22,870
they're just like the impossibly huge

949
00:39:29,380 --> 00:39:26,000
stork or condor like you know feather

950
00:39:31,390 --> 00:39:29,390
feathered Birds there's more than you

951
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:31,400
would think I was absolutely stunned and

952
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:34,010
how many I came up with yeah that's

953
00:39:38,470 --> 00:39:36,530
definitely my favorite area of cryptids

954
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:38,480
the flying ones and the ones that are in

955
00:39:42,730 --> 00:39:40,400
the water because both those areas like

956
00:39:44,350 --> 00:39:42,740
we don't know we don't know as much

957
00:39:45,850 --> 00:39:44,360
about the creatures that live in them

958
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:45,860
you know it's it's it seems kind of

959
00:39:49,330 --> 00:39:47,690
tired especially especially the water

960
00:39:51,310 --> 00:39:49,340
creatures I've I've written a whole book

961
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:51,320
on I've got a book called awakened sea

962
00:39:57,910 --> 00:39:55,010
monsters with a different Chelsea house

963
00:40:00,370 --> 00:39:57,920
press but I had to look up a lot of

964
00:40:03,460 --> 00:40:00,380
those too and the thing is you start

965
00:40:05,530 --> 00:40:03,470
realizing that there are these really

966
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:05,540
deep areas of the ocean that you know we

967
00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:07,010
just haven't been able to penetrate and

968
00:40:12,610 --> 00:40:08,710
we really don't know what's down there

969
00:40:16,270 --> 00:40:12,620
you know it turns out there are squid

970
00:40:18,190 --> 00:40:16,280
huge squid so much bigger than any

971
00:40:20,860 --> 00:40:18,200
scientist ever predicted and that were

972
00:40:22,270 --> 00:40:20,870
scoffed at and not believed until you

973
00:40:25,060 --> 00:40:22,280
know we were able to start recognizing

974
00:40:27,730 --> 00:40:25,070
and retrieving their carcasses when they

975
00:40:29,620 --> 00:40:27,740
washed up yeah giant squids are super

976
00:40:31,570 --> 00:40:29,630
interesting also of course Loch Ness

977
00:40:33,250 --> 00:40:31,580
monster type beans it's not just in Loch

978
00:40:35,170 --> 00:40:33,260
Ness but apparently these things are

979
00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:35,180
sited in areas all over the place even

980
00:40:41,110 --> 00:40:39,200
in lake tahoe supposedly right yeah yeah

981
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:41,120
I mean they're just so common lake

982
00:40:46,390 --> 00:40:43,490
monsters are everywhere it makes me

983
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:46,400
sometimes wonder if either these are

984
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:48,650
also you know the spirit animals coming

985
00:40:53,350 --> 00:40:50,810
back and forth Native Americans believed

986
00:40:56,590 --> 00:40:53,360
that anybody of water a river or a lake

987
00:40:58,330 --> 00:40:56,600
with freshwater Springs on those Springs

988
00:41:02,430 --> 00:40:58,340
were the doors back and forth to the

989
00:41:06,220 --> 00:41:02,440
spirit world or is it that there are

990
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:06,230
well hidden subterranean underwater

991
00:41:10,630 --> 00:41:08,810
passages you know between you know

992
00:41:13,530 --> 00:41:10,640
connecting them to larger bodies of

993
00:41:15,930 --> 00:41:13,540
water or out to the ocean or or whatever

994
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:15,940
right yeah that's also a possibility

995
00:41:20,620 --> 00:41:19,490
they're crazy but I wanted to ask you

996
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:20,630
about a little bit more of your other

997
00:41:24,910 --> 00:41:22,490
work because it sounds right up my alley

998
00:41:26,740 --> 00:41:24,920
I live in San Diego now but I grew up in

999
00:41:29,290 --> 00:41:26,750
st. Louis Missouri and I've taken trips

1000
00:41:31,420 --> 00:41:29,300
all over the Midwest and I saw a few

1001
00:41:33,220 --> 00:41:31,430
years ago that she wrote weird Michigan

1002
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:33,230
and weird Wisconsin their travel guides

1003
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:35,570
the area's local legends and best-kept

1004
00:41:39,070 --> 00:41:37,490
secrets and a couple of other books on

1005
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:39,080
various strange stuff in those two

1006
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:41,810
states and I hoped you could give us an

1007
00:41:45,490 --> 00:41:44,240
interesting anecdote or two about some

1008
00:41:47,050 --> 00:41:45,500
of the other stuff you've looked into

1009
00:41:48,670 --> 00:41:47,060
what are the kinds of weirdness have you

1010
00:41:52,690 --> 00:41:48,680
found interesting in those Midwest

1011
00:41:54,070 --> 00:41:52,700
states oh those books were just so much

1012
00:41:58,380 --> 00:41:54,080
fun they got me into so many different

1013
00:42:02,620 --> 00:41:58,390
areas for one thing they have a lot on

1014
00:42:04,300 --> 00:42:02,630
outsider artists which visionary artists

1015
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:04,310
which is really one of my top favorite

1016
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:06,410
subjects and so you get to go interview

1017
00:42:11,830 --> 00:42:09,410
these really interesting people who have

1018
00:42:15,220 --> 00:42:11,840
just turned their entire lawns and

1019
00:42:17,350 --> 00:42:15,230
acreages into outdoor museum is full of

1020
00:42:21,070 --> 00:42:17,360
these crazy sculptures and things that

1021
00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:21,080
they put together but I also because the

1022
00:42:26,650 --> 00:42:22,910
topics were sort of preordained with

1023
00:42:28,330 --> 00:42:26,660
those books I had to do a lot of ghost

1024
00:42:31,330 --> 00:42:28,340
investigations which wasn't something

1025
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:31,340
it's not really my my big thing I I'm

1026
00:42:39,010 --> 00:42:34,640
not not super into the ghost hunting and

1027
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:39,020
I didn't really expect to to see

1028
00:42:42,820 --> 00:42:40,910
anything frankly I've had some

1029
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:42,830
experiences as a child that left me a

1030
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:44,510
little bit scared of these things and

1031
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:47,330
once in Michigan and once in Wisconsin I

1032
00:42:52,270 --> 00:42:50,450
actually saw a ghostly figure and I

1033
00:42:55,060 --> 00:42:52,280
don't know I'm hesitant to call them

1034
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:55,070
ghosts in the traditional sense of you

1035
00:42:58,330 --> 00:42:56,690
know are these roaming dead people's

1036
00:42:59,770 --> 00:42:58,340
spirits because I don't know what

1037
00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:59,780
they're they could be

1038
00:43:03,390 --> 00:43:01,040
changed manifestations of

1039
00:43:06,310 --> 00:43:03,400
electromagnetic energy interacting with

1040
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:06,320
the the person's consciousness they

1041
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:09,370
could be who knows what you know strange

1042
00:43:15,340 --> 00:43:12,170
other forms of life I don't know what I

1043
00:43:19,630 --> 00:43:15,350
don't know what they are but in one in

1044
00:43:21,750 --> 00:43:19,640
one case I was probably the weirder of

1045
00:43:25,780 --> 00:43:21,760
the two tails I was in Manistee Michigan

1046
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:25,790
and investigating a place I had just

1047
00:43:28,570 --> 00:43:27,290
learned about that day I had gone to

1048
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:28,580
visit the tones of story and he said

1049
00:43:32,140 --> 00:43:30,710
I'll go down the block and there's this

1050
00:43:34,630 --> 00:43:32,150
brick building that used to be this

1051
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:34,640
German tavern and they've got this ghost

1052
00:43:41,050 --> 00:43:38,000
named basement Billie and so I went down

1053
00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:41,060
there and it turned out was now offices

1054
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:43,250
but at one time this big German family

1055
00:43:46,630 --> 00:43:44,690
had built it they had a tavern

1056
00:43:49,450 --> 00:43:46,640
on the main floor they had an apartment

1057
00:43:52,210 --> 00:43:49,460
upstairs where two of the daughters

1058
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:52,220
lived and the whole place was supposed

1059
00:43:58,090 --> 00:43:54,250
to be incredibly haunted and the owner

1060
00:44:00,400 --> 00:43:58,100
who had no idea I was coming or that

1061
00:44:00,910 --> 00:44:00,410
really that anybody even ever knew about

1062
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:00,920
it

1063
00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:05,090
she took me into the basement to meet

1064
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:07,760
basement Billy who supposedly was a

1065
00:44:13,060 --> 00:44:10,010
young son of that family who had died of

1066
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:13,070
typhoid when he was a young teenager and

1067
00:44:18,940 --> 00:44:16,880
was quite the act of poltergeist you

1068
00:44:21,310 --> 00:44:18,950
know unscrewing lightbulbs and he used

1069
00:44:23,350 --> 00:44:21,320
to swipe would swipe all the glassware

1070
00:44:24,850 --> 00:44:23,360
off of an antique store shelf when there

1071
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:24,860
was a store an antique store in there

1072
00:44:28,420 --> 00:44:26,330
during the night while it was locked

1073
00:44:31,060 --> 00:44:28,430
that kind of thing and people would

1074
00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:31,070
sometimes see him you know dressed as a

1075
00:44:38,350 --> 00:44:34,510
young man in early turn-of-the-century

1076
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:38,360
clothing just outside of the building so

1077
00:44:42,820 --> 00:44:40,640
we're down in this big basement and I

1078
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:42,830
said well let's just turn the lights off

1079
00:44:46,150 --> 00:44:44,330
and see if anything shows up I had no

1080
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:46,160
big hopes for anything I just really

1081
00:44:50,860 --> 00:44:47,570
needed some pictures you know for the

1082
00:44:52,810 --> 00:44:50,870
book and there was almost nothing in

1083
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:52,820
there was a gigantic space any of the

1084
00:44:57,070 --> 00:44:54,770
ductwork was covered by brown paper so

1085
00:44:59,080 --> 00:44:57,080
there was no reflective surface there

1086
00:45:01,980 --> 00:44:59,090
was one little bear light bulb behind us

1087
00:45:05,380 --> 00:45:01,990
and one at the other end of this

1088
00:45:07,570 --> 00:45:05,390
basement and that was it and she turned

1089
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:07,580
him off and it was pitch black literally

1090
00:45:11,110 --> 00:45:08,810
couldn't see anything

1091
00:45:12,670 --> 00:45:11,120
and we stood there a couple of minutes

1092
00:45:13,630 --> 00:45:12,680
and I was just about to say we'll turn

1093
00:45:18,490 --> 00:45:13,640
the lights back on

1094
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:18,500
all of a sudden this round light light

1095
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:21,650
like orb and I say light like because it

1096
00:45:25,809 --> 00:45:23,359
wasn't emitting light it was sort of

1097
00:45:27,309 --> 00:45:25,819
like it was drying in light if that

1098
00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:27,319
makes any sense it was about the size of

1099
00:45:33,579 --> 00:45:30,730
a basketball it was just below the

1100
00:45:36,370 --> 00:45:33,589
7-foot ceiling maybe about eight feet

1101
00:45:39,099 --> 00:45:36,380
away from me and it had some little

1102
00:45:41,980 --> 00:45:39,109
projections on the side sides of it and

1103
00:45:44,170 --> 00:45:41,990
I had this feeling that it was curious

1104
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:44,180
or sentient or no you know that it had

1105
00:45:49,509 --> 00:45:47,690
some sort of intelligence to it and I

1106
00:45:50,740 --> 00:45:49,519
was so shocked I thought this my eyes

1107
00:45:52,839 --> 00:45:50,750
are playing tricks this is crazy I

1108
00:45:54,910 --> 00:45:52,849
looked away shut my eyes look back and

1109
00:45:58,089 --> 00:45:54,920
it was still there kind of hanging there

1110
00:46:00,009 --> 00:45:58,099
like no I'm here I'm here and I was so

1111
00:46:01,690 --> 00:46:00,019
shocked by the time I thought of pulling

1112
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:01,700
my you know my camera was hanging around

1113
00:46:05,380 --> 00:46:03,890
my neck by the time I pulled it up to

1114
00:46:07,599 --> 00:46:05,390
into position to take the picture then

1115
00:46:10,420 --> 00:46:07,609
it faded away mmm

1116
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:10,430
and I've heard that before too yeah yeah

1117
00:46:15,730 --> 00:46:13,490
it's a typical thing and the interesting

1118
00:46:18,099 --> 00:46:15,740
thing about that is that you know I

1119
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:18,109
heard the the owner kind of gasp she

1120
00:46:24,519 --> 00:46:20,210
also saw but she saw it as the fully

1121
00:46:27,490 --> 00:46:24,529
dressed entity that people expect to see

1122
00:46:29,529 --> 00:46:27,500
the the young man now that made me think

1123
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:29,539
why would I see I who had no

1124
00:46:33,370 --> 00:46:31,130
preconceptions and wasn't expecting

1125
00:46:36,460 --> 00:46:33,380
anything saw it as sort of a raw pure

1126
00:46:43,269 --> 00:46:36,470
form of energy where she saw it as the

1127
00:46:45,490 --> 00:46:43,279
fully articulated young man so it makes

1128
00:46:47,499 --> 00:46:45,500
me wonder if if it is some sort of

1129
00:46:50,109 --> 00:46:47,509
energy that does interact with our

1130
00:46:55,359 --> 00:46:50,119
consciousness you know and and partly

1131
00:46:57,519 --> 00:46:55,369
fills our expectations yeah I'm with you

1132
00:46:58,930 --> 00:46:57,529
on that that's an interesting thread to

1133
00:47:00,849 --> 00:46:58,940
these type of sightings I would love to

1134
00:47:02,740 --> 00:47:00,859
see something like that but it just

1135
00:47:05,049 --> 00:47:02,750
hasn't happened I've actually took the

1136
00:47:07,299 --> 00:47:05,059
show on a ghost hunt in one of the first

1137
00:47:10,749 --> 00:47:07,309
attempts at doing a like a video in the

1138
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:10,759
field episode and it went all night to

1139
00:47:14,499 --> 00:47:12,890
like four in the morning and nothing I

1140
00:47:16,539 --> 00:47:14,509
saw nothing of course the people I was

1141
00:47:18,069 --> 00:47:16,549
with they felt like they saw some things

1142
00:47:20,319 --> 00:47:18,079
and heard some things and wondered why I

1143
00:47:21,460 --> 00:47:20,329
didn't do the show and I was like well

1144
00:47:23,230 --> 00:47:21,470
there's nothing to do

1145
00:47:25,269 --> 00:47:23,240
I could either over sensationalize it

1146
00:47:27,460 --> 00:47:25,279
like they do on television right or I

1147
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:27,470
could just put out

1148
00:47:32,470 --> 00:47:30,530
a bunch of night-vision shots of nothing

1149
00:47:35,650 --> 00:47:32,480
for an hour and see how interesting that

1150
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:35,660
is right it's yeah and it's very my

1151
00:47:38,020 --> 00:47:37,250
friends are Ghost Hunters say that's how

1152
00:47:40,570 --> 00:47:38,030
it normally is

1153
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:40,580
yeah and their joke is if you want it if

1154
00:47:43,810 --> 00:47:42,770
you want to see a ghost don't stand next

1155
00:47:45,670 --> 00:47:43,820
to a ghost hunter

1156
00:47:48,370 --> 00:47:45,680
you know because they'll never see one

1157
00:47:51,790 --> 00:47:48,380
so that's why I went in an awful lot of

1158
00:47:56,349 --> 00:47:51,800
other haunted places and that you know I

1159
00:47:58,420 --> 00:47:56,359
just had the two experiences but it is a

1160
00:48:00,250 --> 00:47:58,430
good question of why and it's the same

1161
00:48:02,470 --> 00:48:00,260
thing with the creatures people will go

1162
00:48:05,250 --> 00:48:02,480
hunting for them don't normally run into

1163
00:48:07,870 --> 00:48:05,260
them it's it's a kind of a conundrum

1164
00:48:10,420 --> 00:48:07,880
yeah well we are getting pretty deep

1165
00:48:12,070 --> 00:48:10,430
into this interview and I was hoping you

1166
00:48:13,930 --> 00:48:12,080
could give the people a little bit of

1167
00:48:16,330 --> 00:48:13,940
information about your first book the

1168
00:48:18,310 --> 00:48:16,340
poison widow because I actually know

1169
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:18,320
someone who told me about this book a

1170
00:48:22,270 --> 00:48:20,930
couple of years ago and the story kind

1171
00:48:24,820 --> 00:48:22,280
of stuck with me because it's pretty

1172
00:48:26,349 --> 00:48:24,830
creepy but it wasn't until we had

1173
00:48:27,849 --> 00:48:26,359
already had this interview scheduled

1174
00:48:29,890 --> 00:48:27,859
that I found out that you wrote that

1175
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:29,900
book and that it was your first book so

1176
00:48:33,310 --> 00:48:32,240
that's kind of synchronistic but um can

1177
00:48:36,609 --> 00:48:33,320
you tell the people a little bit about

1178
00:48:39,430 --> 00:48:36,619
her story yeah it's called the poison

1179
00:48:43,420 --> 00:48:39,440
widow a true story of sin strychnine and

1180
00:48:45,940 --> 00:48:43,430
murder and it's the story of this petite

1181
00:48:46,450 --> 00:48:45,950
attractive little woman named Myrtle

1182
00:48:48,849 --> 00:48:46,460
shouta

1183
00:48:51,099 --> 00:48:48,859
who was married to the pillar of the

1184
00:48:54,310 --> 00:48:51,109
local Methodist Church in whitewater

1185
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:54,320
Wisconsin he was a milkman had a little

1186
00:48:59,290 --> 00:48:56,410
little dairy they had four beautiful

1187
00:49:02,680 --> 00:48:59,300
wonderful children and they started

1188
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:02,690
taking in boarders from the nearby they

1189
00:49:07,930 --> 00:49:04,490
called it a normal normal school now

1190
00:49:09,970 --> 00:49:07,940
it's uw-whitewater and she started she

1191
00:49:11,410 --> 00:49:09,980
had an affair with one of these student

1192
00:49:13,810 --> 00:49:11,420
boarders and between the two of them

1193
00:49:16,089 --> 00:49:13,820
they killed her husband with strychnine

1194
00:49:18,910 --> 00:49:16,099
and she would have gotten away with it

1195
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:18,920
except then he wasn't so keen on having

1196
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:22,010
the ready-made family and so she tried

1197
00:49:26,770 --> 00:49:23,930
to kill her four children as well and

1198
00:49:30,089 --> 00:49:26,780
then things just went really crazy Lea

1199
00:49:33,010 --> 00:49:30,099
right and it's just this it ends up just

1200
00:49:36,790 --> 00:49:33,020
nutty I did six years of research on it

1201
00:49:40,690 --> 00:49:36,800
and I discovered that she sort of

1202
00:49:41,170 --> 00:49:40,700
wheedled her way out of prison and got

1203
00:49:43,569 --> 00:49:41,180
out

1204
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:43,579
and a whole another family who didn't

1205
00:49:46,809 --> 00:49:45,170
have the slightest idea who she was or

1206
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:46,819
what she had done until I tracked them

1207
00:49:52,089 --> 00:49:48,890
down and basically said I know what your

1208
00:49:53,710 --> 00:49:52,099
granny did last century that is so

1209
00:49:57,490 --> 00:49:53,720
interesting like you did it yourself

1210
00:49:59,880 --> 00:49:57,500
like man that's powerful well you know I

1211
00:50:03,370 --> 00:49:59,890
just I really wanted to know how a woman

1212
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:03,380
like her who I could find nothing in her

1213
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:05,210
background you know - she grew up in

1214
00:50:10,410 --> 00:50:07,970
this you know happy close-knit farm

1215
00:50:13,359 --> 00:50:10,420
family with you know strong church ties

1216
00:50:15,970 --> 00:50:13,369
other than the fact that at age 17 she

1217
00:50:17,799 --> 00:50:15,980
married a 34 year old man you know so

1218
00:50:21,339 --> 00:50:17,809
there was kind of an and he was sort of

1219
00:50:23,890 --> 00:50:21,349
an authoritarian but well-liked and

1220
00:50:25,780 --> 00:50:23,900
well-respected man I couldn't find any

1221
00:50:27,910 --> 00:50:25,790
big thing in her history you know to

1222
00:50:29,799 --> 00:50:27,920
suggest why she might turn out like this

1223
00:50:31,329 --> 00:50:29,809
and and I wanted to know what what

1224
00:50:33,339 --> 00:50:31,339
happened to her and where she went

1225
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:33,349
you know and that nobody seemed to know

1226
00:50:40,660 --> 00:50:36,530
so I just took it upon myself to keep

1227
00:50:42,910 --> 00:50:40,670
researching that and yeah I that there's

1228
00:50:44,530 --> 00:50:42,920
still really no rhyme or reason one of

1229
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:44,540
the interesting things though is that I

1230
00:50:50,380 --> 00:50:47,119
discovered almost every place connected

1231
00:50:53,079 --> 00:50:50,390
with where she lived has now some

1232
00:50:56,740 --> 00:50:53,089
haunted aspect or some weird legend with

1233
00:50:59,079 --> 00:50:56,750
it oh that's interesting the part of the

1234
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:59,089
case that that really stuck with me was

1235
00:51:04,270 --> 00:51:01,520
hearing the way she tried to get rid of

1236
00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:04,280
her four kids I mean didn't she yeah she

1237
00:51:08,289 --> 00:51:06,530
cooked she baked them some treats and

1238
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:08,299
just put him in a car and hoped that

1239
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:11,650
they would just all die him on the ride

1240
00:51:17,859 --> 00:51:15,010
well yeah actually she went downtown

1241
00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:17,869
whitewater and bought some four

1242
00:51:23,020 --> 00:51:21,049
beautiful big chocolate bonbons you know

1243
00:51:24,789 --> 00:51:23,030
that were with a filling because

1244
00:51:26,410 --> 00:51:24,799
strychnine is very bitter you have to

1245
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:26,420
put it in something really sweet to

1246
00:51:29,740 --> 00:51:27,770
disguise that she had given it to her

1247
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:29,750
husband and prune juice but kids weren't

1248
00:51:34,780 --> 00:51:32,210
gonna drink that so she got these

1249
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:34,790
wonderful treats and back in the 20s you

1250
00:51:39,069 --> 00:51:36,410
know it wasn't like today's kids were

1251
00:51:41,309 --> 00:51:39,079
candies on it you know at on hand all

1252
00:51:45,010 --> 00:51:41,319
the time these were really special and

1253
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:45,020
the oldest boy 16 Ralph was going to

1254
00:51:49,660 --> 00:51:47,930
drive and her plan was that they would

1255
00:51:51,130 --> 00:51:49,670
she told them not to eat the candy until

1256
00:51:54,860 --> 00:51:51,140
they were out in the country she sent

1257
00:51:56,390 --> 00:51:54,870
them out to buy potatoes and of course

1258
00:51:59,390 --> 00:51:56,400
her plan was that they would crash the

1259
00:52:00,740 --> 00:51:59,400
car and they would all get killed by the

1260
00:52:02,510 --> 00:52:00,750
strychnine but people would think it was

1261
00:52:04,220 --> 00:52:02,520
the car crash that killed them and she

1262
00:52:05,330 --> 00:52:04,230
didn't even use her own car she didn't

1263
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:05,340
want her car to get wrecked so she

1264
00:52:10,430 --> 00:52:07,890
pretended hers was in the garage and

1265
00:52:12,470 --> 00:52:10,440
asked a professor who lived next door if

1266
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:12,480
they could use his car hmm

1267
00:52:17,570 --> 00:52:14,370
so I mean you can see just how

1268
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:17,580
calculating she was and the only trouble

1269
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:20,730
was being kids and being so excited to

1270
00:52:26,510 --> 00:52:22,530
have this wonderful candy they all

1271
00:52:28,670 --> 00:52:26,520
immediately started eating it and the

1272
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:28,680
little ones bit into it and they all

1273
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:30,210
started spitting it out except the

1274
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:31,770
teenager being a teenager gulped the

1275
00:52:38,510 --> 00:52:36,330
whole thing down and she and she still

1276
00:52:40,100 --> 00:52:38,520
let them go no I guess she thought well

1277
00:52:43,130 --> 00:52:40,110
he's driving he'll still probably crash

1278
00:52:45,350 --> 00:52:43,140
the car you know maybe though they'll

1279
00:52:47,660 --> 00:52:45,360
all be dead anyway was probably what she

1280
00:52:50,510 --> 00:52:47,670
was thinking so she let them go and he's

1281
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:50,520
sure enough he started convulsing the 13

1282
00:52:54,260 --> 00:52:52,770
year old managed to commandeer the

1283
00:52:56,900 --> 00:52:54,270
steering wheel and get them back to town

1284
00:53:00,460 --> 00:52:56,910
to the doctors and luckily the children

1285
00:53:03,740 --> 00:53:00,470
were all saved but that brought in the

1286
00:53:05,870 --> 00:53:03,750
district attorney who again

1287
00:53:08,050 --> 00:53:05,880
synchronistically happened to be related

1288
00:53:11,180 --> 00:53:08,060
to my husband's family

1289
00:53:13,730 --> 00:53:11,190
yeah and it's it was kind of a weird

1290
00:53:15,890 --> 00:53:13,740
thing and she told him that this candy

1291
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:15,900
lady from Milwaukee was sold her the

1292
00:53:21,260 --> 00:53:18,090
bonbons and so there there was this

1293
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:21,270
multi countywide manhunt for this evil

1294
00:53:27,460 --> 00:53:24,930
poison candy lady mmm and nobody else

1295
00:53:29,540 --> 00:53:27,470
had seen her and so you know that she

1296
00:53:33,020 --> 00:53:29,550
Myrtle finally broke down and confessed

1297
00:53:36,380 --> 00:53:33,030
and that's when things went went awry

1298
00:53:37,940 --> 00:53:36,390
yeah I could not imagine you know some

1299
00:53:39,830 --> 00:53:37,950
woman coming to my door and being like

1300
00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:39,840
hey this is the backstory for your

1301
00:53:43,510 --> 00:53:41,310
grandmother because I'd be like wow

1302
00:53:46,700 --> 00:53:43,520
she's made a lot of food that I've eaten

1303
00:53:50,270 --> 00:53:46,710
that was exactly what they said you know

1304
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:50,280
it was like because she had been sort of

1305
00:53:54,500 --> 00:53:52,800
the they had a family business and her

1306
00:53:56,750 --> 00:53:54,510
job was to sort of stay home and do all

1307
00:53:59,260 --> 00:53:56,760
the cooking and they said oh all those

1308
00:54:01,970 --> 00:53:59,270
meals we ate and the weirdest thing was

1309
00:54:04,490 --> 00:54:01,980
they said she would watch them sometimes

1310
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:04,500
when she would introduce a new dish or

1311
00:54:09,230 --> 00:54:06,690
whatever she'd watch them eating it and

1312
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:09,240
she'd be saying is it

1313
00:54:15,410 --> 00:54:13,680
is it good like that so I mean there's

1314
00:54:17,540 --> 00:54:15,420
and there's a lot more to the story than

1315
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:17,550
that it's an incredible story and I

1316
00:54:23,660 --> 00:54:19,770
think would have been far more deserving

1317
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:23,670
of a movie or a TV show than the beast

1318
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:25,290
of Bray Road movie that's out there you

1319
00:54:31,610 --> 00:54:27,330
know it's it's it's already got all the

1320
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:31,620
horror and intrigue just intrinsic to it

1321
00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:33,330
you know you wouldn't need to make up a

1322
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:37,170
horror slasher film yeah that is pretty

1323
00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:39,570
creepy but I guess on that uplifting and

1324
00:54:43,490 --> 00:54:41,910
positive note it has been a great time

1325
00:54:45,770 --> 00:54:43,500
talking to you Linda a lot of

1326
00:54:47,660 --> 00:54:45,780
interesting stuff you've definitely

1327
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:47,670
gotten me to take these Wolfman

1328
00:54:51,170 --> 00:54:49,440
encounters a little more seriously which

1329
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:51,180
you'd like to give the people a little

1330
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:52,890
bit of info about your website or tell

1331
00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:54,240
them about anything else you're

1332
00:54:57,650 --> 00:54:55,650
currently working on I know you already

1333
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:57,660
talked to us about your new monster book

1334
00:55:03,410 --> 00:55:00,240
coming out right that's coming out in

1335
00:55:05,540 --> 00:55:03,420
August you can go to Linda Godfrey com I

1336
00:55:09,110 --> 00:55:05,550
have a wordpress blog and you can read

1337
00:55:10,970 --> 00:55:09,120
my blog there's a bio page I'm in the

1338
00:55:12,740 --> 00:55:10,980
process of updating my calendar for the

1339
00:55:15,020 --> 00:55:12,750
year where I'm going to be speaking and

1340
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:15,030
making appearances there's a books books

1341
00:55:20,750 --> 00:55:16,770
page books and bio where you can see a

1342
00:55:23,510 --> 00:55:20,760
list of all the books I also have my

1343
00:55:25,910 --> 00:55:23,520
first fantasy novel out it's all it as

1344
00:55:28,250 --> 00:55:25,920
an e-book you can get it on Kindle or

1345
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:28,260
Khobar smashwords or you know Barnes &

1346
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:30,330
Noble any of those and that's it's

1347
00:55:34,310 --> 00:55:32,400
called God Johnson the Unforgiven Diary

1348
00:55:36,740 --> 00:55:34,320
and there's a whole page for it at my

1349
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:36,750
blog at Linda Godfrey calm and you can

1350
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:38,250
find out all about that and where to

1351
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:41,370
download it it's only $2.99 and it's got

1352
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:42,960
12 pretty good reviews on Amazon right

1353
00:55:47,420 --> 00:55:45,210
now and seems to be picking up some

1354
00:55:50,270 --> 00:55:47,430
steam so if you like if you like

1355
00:55:51,830 --> 00:55:50,280
paranormal fantasy not where well it's

1356
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:51,840
not about werewolves it's it's about a

1357
00:55:56,020 --> 00:55:53,610
whole different subject but if you like

1358
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:56,030
paranormal fantasy you might enjoy that

1359
00:56:00,050 --> 00:55:58,410
right on you're all over the map but

1360
00:56:01,970 --> 00:56:00,060
that's awesome you got a lot of work out

1361
00:56:04,730 --> 00:56:01,980
there well thanks so much for being here

1362
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:04,740
Linda take care and be careful out there

1363
00:56:08,900 --> 00:56:07,170
in your research and I would wish the

1364
00:56:09,950 --> 00:56:08,910
same for you and all of our listeners

1365
00:56:11,930 --> 00:56:09,960
alright

1366
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:11,940
well take care thanks again you're

1367
00:56:15,860 --> 00:56:14,250
welcome there we have if people keep

1368
00:56:17,390 --> 00:56:15,870
your eyes open for the mysterious and

1369
00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:17,400
elusive cryptids of the world and always

1370
00:56:21,260 --> 00:56:19,440
let your siblings eat grandmas brownies

1371
00:56:22,550 --> 00:56:21,270
first or if you're like me you get your

1372
00:56:25,070 --> 00:56:22,560
brownies from a reputable

1373
00:56:26,900 --> 00:56:25,080
medical establishment so you know it's

1374
00:56:28,610 --> 00:56:26,910
nothing but the sweet sweet medicine of

1375
00:56:30,350 --> 00:56:28,620
the gods please share the show and

1376
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:30,360
review it where you can reviews help

1377
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:32,610
with exposure it's a whole thing I don't

1378
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:34,290
want to bore you with it life has never

1379
00:56:37,490 --> 00:56:36,090
been better if you have a shitty job I

1380
00:56:39,740 --> 00:56:37,500
understand but if you're not working on

1381
00:56:41,270 --> 00:56:39,750
an exit strategy nobody else will so

1382
00:56:42,620 --> 00:56:41,280
keep your chin up some beer in the cup

1383
00:56:44,540 --> 00:56:42,630
and we're gonna make it through this me

1384
00:56:46,310 --> 00:56:44,550
and you this is not the greatest podcast

1385
00:56:49,070 --> 00:56:46,320
in the world this is just a tribute see